POP MUSIC : Cleaned Up, Calmed Down and in Control

P aul Westerberg is a rock star worth believing in, though it’s taken him almost a decade to accept it himself.

As leader of the Replacements, he wrote tuneful tales in the ‘80s about insecurities and desires with the intensity and insight of a young Pete Townshend.

Yet the raw, raspy singer was the victim of his insecurities--leaving the widely acclaimed cult favorite unable to follow through on industry predictions of mainstream success. Westerberg relied on alcohol to battle the anxiety of playing live and he sometimes set aside his gentler musical instincts in the studio.

Finally reaching for the wider audience, the Replacements signed on as the opening act on a Tom Petty arena tour in 1989. But audiences were indifferent and a disheartened Westerberg thought about quitting music.

He fought back, however, recording the latest “Replacements album”--the uncompromising “All Shook Down”-- virtually on his own and swearing off alcohol before going on tour last month. On the day after the Replacements’ concert at the Hollywood Palladium, the lean Westerberg, 30, seemed finally in command of his music and his life as he sipped cappuccino in a West Hollywood coffee shop.

Question: Did you really consider giving up music after the Petty tour?

Answer: Absolutely. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I was in such bad shape that I thought for a while that quitting music was my only choice. I was frightened. The drinking and the drugs had become so wrapped up with the music that I thought I’d have to give up the music to survive.

After a while, I realized that the thing I needed to give up wasn’t the music, but the lifestyle . . . that they didn’t have to go together. And that decision freed me on a variety of levels. I didn’t know how many more albums I’d be able to make, so I wanted to make an album just for me. I was through with the democracy in the studio.

Q: Were you at all afraid that the alcohol was a necessary part of your creative process?

A: No, that’s the funny thing. Everyone always assumes I write at 3 in the morning, lying on the floor some place. But 80% of the stuff I’ve written, from the beginning, was written during the day, stone sober. Recording and performing was a different matter, but the writing was done sober.

Q: What happened on the Petty tour?

A: It’s important to put that tour in perspective. There was absolutely no tension between the bands, but we were used to playing before our own, really enthusiastic fans and we thought we’d win over all these other fans automatically . . . and we didn’t. They couldn’t care less--and this was supposed to be our big breakthrough.

Q: Was that humbling?

A: Very much so. We lost focus on that tour. When we found that audiences weren’t liking us, we decided that if we couldn’t have fun that one hour on stage, we’d make sure we had fun the other 23 hours of the day. And that “good time” wore us out.

Q: Why was it important to move up to an arena level in the first place? Was it a matter of money or were you just anxious to have more people hear your music?

A: It was none of that really. The thing is we had spent nine or 10 years being at one level and we knew the level very well. We knew the fans tour after tour. We were ready for a change.

Q: What about sales? Was it frustrating to be one of the most acclaimed bands in rock and yet not be able to get a gold record when so many terrible groups are always going platinum and double platinum?

A: Sure, it was frustrating and we often took the frustrations out in a very childish, destructive way. It almost got to the point to where we felt it was us against the world and we did all the cliche things . . . break up hotel rooms, dressing rooms, whatever . . . wreak havoc at the record label. Looking back on it, maybe it’s obvious why we didn’t sell a lot of records.

Q: Did you try to figure out why your albums didn’t get more airplay?

A: Yes. I’d listen to “Tim” (the band’s greatly admired 1985 album) or whatever and see all the things I liked about the album, but then I’d try to see the album through the record company’s eyes or through the radio stations’ eyes and I could see that the playing wasn’t really all that good and the singing was pretty flat some times.

Then, I’d listen to some of the bands who were getting lots of airplay. The songs on their albums might have been pretty innocuous a lot of the time, but the playing was top-notch and the singing was in tune. So, we tried for more of that ourselves. I’ll admit that with the “Don’t Tell a Soul” album (in 1989), we tried to get on the radio.

Q: Did you feel compromised--the kings of alternative rock trying to appeal to mass radio?

A: It didn’t bother us to do it. But it really bothered us when it didn’t work. I remember we thought, “God, we look dumb.” I’m not talking about the songs because we believed in them, just the way the album was mixed. We spent so much time on “Asking Me Lies” (one of the album’s tracks) because we thought that was going to be a smash.

I think Slim (guitarist Slim Dunlap) had a lot to do with that. He and I thought we were going to put our heads together and find the formula that the band had been lacking. Basically, we used our heads too much and forgot to have fun.

Q: What was it like making the new album?

A: I was at the end of my rope recording these songs. I wasn’t at all cleaned up. Once the record was completed and I listened to it, however, and I realized it is exactly the album I wanted to make. And I saw a challenge: “OK, you wrote it for everyone in the world to hear. You can’t back out now. Now you’ve got to go out and do it, but you’ve also got to change your (lifestyle).”

I also realized that I was comfortable writing songs and doing things outside of the band and that it is something I plan to continue to do. I wrote a song that Joan Jett is going to release and I’d like other artists to do my stuff. I understand George Jones (the country star) is considering doing “Here Comes a Regular.” That would be great.

Q: What about the status of the Replacements?

A: This freedom means the band can continue. Now that I have made this record, I opened the door. It is like saying to the other guys, “It’s OK for any of you to play with anyone, write, do anything you want. It doesn’t mean your loyalty to the band is diminished.”

It frees everyone, including me. I can still be in the band without being trapped by the band, if you understand what I mean. In fact, Tommy (bassist Tommy Stinson) is writing some songs and may make an album that we’ll release as a Replacements album. We have lots of options.

Q: Why is it important for you to be in a band? Other artists--Springsteen, Sting, Costello--aren’t tied to a specific group any more.

A: I wish I had the answer to this. Going out on the road--especially without Tommy--would be very difficult for me. I learned to play on stage with him by my side. There’s also this bonding factor. If something goes wrong, we take care of each other. Last night, for instance, Slim came up to me after the third song and said he wanted to faint. If that had been a session man or something, I probably would have said, “Don’t.” But it was Slim and I said, “Go lay down, I’ll play your part. Don’t worry.”

And I think that kind of friendship and emotion is something that comes through in the music. There is a brotherly kind of thing. We could get better players, but I kind of like the fact that in some ways we are a garage band that has gotten to this level. I mean I’m no great shakes as a guitarist.

Q: There are so many reflections on insecurity and self-doubt in your songs. What was your childhood like?

A: I was very shy, didn’t fit in. I had a hard time relating to the few pals I had. I sort of got caught up in maybe more of a hoodlum element that I really didn’t fit in. I preferred to go home and listen to Joni Mitchell records and they preferred to get drunk and break windows. I spent a lot of time alone in my room with a guitar, listening to my albums and thinking about songs. The songs were my friends. I guess what I eventually did was take my bedroom to a stage.

Q: Who were your rock heroes as a kid?

A: I think that’s part of the problem. . . . My role models were all losers, the outlaws who never quite had it together.

But my influences were something else. I was into all the Top 40 hits--the ones by people like Edward Bear that you find on that “Have a Nice Day” series of albums on Rhino. I was like glued to those records. Take away the silly lyrics from those songs and you can find a lot of similar chord structures in my songs. I can’t spend much time on anything that isn’t catchy.

Q: What’s a song you wish you had written?

A: Something like Gordon Lightfoot’s “If You Could Read My Mind.” The thing I like about it is that he’s obviously saying something in the song that was too painful to say in person. I doubt he sat down with her first and said, “Listen, I don’t love you any more.”

I do that in my songs too. It’s like you think, “Do I really care about this person or not?” I don’t want to admit it to myself or to her, but I’ll write a song and tell the world about it. If writers had a little more guts, maybe they wouldn’t be writers. They wouldn’t need to put their feelings in a song.

Q: How do the audiences accept the new Westerberg?

A: I think there are a handful who are troubled. Tommy got a letter the other day that said, “Please get Paul to snap out of this sensitive, introspective stuff and get back to kicking some butt.” But the majority are happy to see what is happening.

Q: And how has the tour been for you so far?

A: Well, we’ve only been on the road three days, so there is always the chance that something could go wrong . . . that I can go backwards. But don’t think it’ll happen. I am excited. I look forward to going to the gigs now and talking to some of the fans.

I used to not be able to deal with some of the fans because they feel so strongly about the band . . . the ones who come up with tears in their eyes, saying, “Don’t quit, Paul. You mean so much, you changed my life.”

At one time, I didn’t want the responsibility of being a big part of someone’s life because I couldn’t even take care of my own life. But, I can face that now. I think by doing the last record, it opened up to everyone--the fans, the rest of the band, but mostly me--that I finally have the strength to do what I want to do.