Q&A; VENTURA COUNTY FIRE CHIEF : ‘We’re Not Going to Rush In and Risk People’s Lives’

Q. When you get the call that there has been a train derailment and then it becomes clear that this could involve a serious toxic spill, what goes through your mind?

A. The first thing is who are your people going out on that call and how are you going to deal with the incident? When I’ve satisfied myself that the right people are out there with the right level of experience and knowledge, then I try to stay out of the way. On this incident, the people we sent out there initially are as good as we’ve got.

Q. What would you say made this spill so difficult to handle?

A. In hazardous materials, we use a rating scale of 0 to 4 for flammability, reactivity and health effects. Hydrazine was rated 3, 3 and 3. As soon as we saw that, we knew we had a very serious incident. And because there were multiple containers of the liquid, that meant we couldn’t go in with forklifts or other heavy equipment. It had to all be done manually and the exertion of wearing the protective suits is very fatiguing. One of the things we really stress is personal safety.

Q. Was the information that was initially provided by Southern Pacific sufficient to allow the department to respond quickly and safely?

A. Yes. Somehow the word got out that it was not enough information for us, but it definitely was. When our first engine company arrived, the Southern Pacific man got out of the locomotive with the manifest immediately. The cars were numbered 1 to 48, and the manifest showed there was hydrazine in car No. 11. We can get out our chemicals manual and look up the substance immediately. Southern Pacific dispatch was also calling us with the information on what was on the train, so there was backup.

Q. Do you see a need for greater information on toxic chemicals shipped through the county, similar to the hazardous materials safety reports that businesses must keep on file with city and county fire departments?

A. No. We couldn’t handle that much information, and I see no benefit from it because we had all the information we needed. Unless it’s a real exotic chemical, we are going to have the data on it. If trains only came through with hazardous materials a couple of times a year, we would want that information. But there are half a dozen a day. And unless it’s an Amtrak train, it’s probably carrying hazardous materials. This system worked for us.

Q. Are your firefighters sufficiently trained to handle a hazardous materials spill, or do they need further education in this area?

A. I don’t think we are ever sufficiently trained. We are always trying to be better at what we do. We have 15 people trained as hazardous materials responders, and we are always training those people. They work in teams of five. Out of the five people on duty, about three are trained to the level we would like. That’s due to transfers or promotions or moves.

Q. How has firefighting involving hazardous materials spills changed during your career as a firefighter?

A. In 25 years, it’s changed 180 degrees. We used to go in with a jacket and hat and a pair of gloves. Now our people wear full protective clothing when there are hazardous chemicals involved. We normally train firefighters to be aggressive--to go in and mitigate the problem. But with hazardous materials, it’s just the opposite. We’re real concerned about how our people have been affected by hazardous materials over the years. To a certain extent it’s made us less effective. But we’re not going to rush in and risk people’s lives.

Q. Were you satisfied with your department’s performance and with that of other supporting agencies?

A. Absolutely. We’ll do a detailed post-incident analysis, and we will try to identify the areas where we can do better. Every time we have a large incident, we have logistical problems--people don’t get fed on time, they don’t get sleeping bags. But we rely a lot on volunteers for that kind of thing. I think our analysis will show us that our logistical support could have been better. But as far as the scene management, I think we’ll be hard-pressed to improve on what we’ve done.

Q. How well-coordinated was the effort?

A. This was as good a multidisciplined response as we’ve ever had. Early on, the Fire Department, the Sheriff’s Department and the California Highway Patrol agreed that we’ve got to hold hands on this incident. We established a unified command within 1 1/2 hours after the incident, with all three agencies taking part in decisions. Then we expanded that to include input from other agencies, like the Ventura County Environmental Health Department, Caltrans, the California Department of Fish and Game, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and others.

Q. Could your department have handled this incident if it had occurred in a populated area?

A. We aren’t capable of dealing with every kind of incident. We have limited resources. But even in the location where the accident occurred, if all the hydrazine had been released very quickly, we could have been dragging bodies out of some of those homes. We just have to do the best we can.

Q. Some Seacliff residents are complaining that they have been getting no or misleading information about when they can return to their homes and the fate of their pets. How do you respond?

A. We need specifics to see what went wrong. I’m not sure why that would have happened. There was plenty of information being disseminated at the Red Cross evacuation center, and if they called our dispatch center, they should have been able to get information. This is one of the areas we’ll have to analyze, because this is probably as effective a communications process as we have.

Q. At the request of the chemical manufacturer, Olin Corp., your department refused to release standard chemical data sheets that are kept on file with city and county fire departments. Why?

A. That’s public information, and I’m not sure what that decision was based on. Sometimes when you’re handling an incident with the press looking over your shoulder, people can get a little paranoid. And the press isn’t always accurate.

Q. Does this kind of a massive operation strain an already tight budget while the department awaits reimbursement from Southern Pacific?

A. Southern Pacific is covering all expenses related to the incident now. We had about $100,000 in overtime as of Thursday morning. Hopefully, we’ll get reimbursement.

Q. What should be done differently in the future to prevent such an incident from recurring?

A. We have speculated about the kinds of containers used to transport the hydrazine. They were transported in drums of about 50 gallons each. Maybe they need specially designed containers.