The Angry Undecided--15 Swing Voters Give Views : Election: People like these will be vital in the governor’s race. Disillusionment figures large in their uncertainty.

Marvin Hershman watches Southern California deteriorate around him and wonders why the government does so little about it.

A contracts manager for Litton Industries, Hershman, 60, is angry. The politicians, he says, are more concerned with their own reelection than with helping people like him.

“I personally do not believe they give a damn,” Hershman says.

Although the West Hills Democrat and father of three sometimes feels as if his is a voice in the wilderness, he is not alone.

Opinion polls show that most California voters believe their state is going in the wrong direction.

To find out in a more direct and personal way what voters are thinking about, The Times invited Hershman and 14 other San Fernando Valley residents to discuss their concerns as the election approaches. The group met for two hours over dinner with a Times editor and reporters in Chatsworth, and they agreed to meet again as the election draws closer.

All have voted at least twice in the past three elections and said they intended to go to the polls Nov. 8, when Gov. Pete Wilson, seeking a second term, will be opposed by state Treasurer Kathleen Brown. These voters were chosen in part because they are undecided about the governor’s race. Swing voters like these could make the difference in a close election, and the campaigns will try hard to win them over.

Although by no means a scientific survey, the group included a cross-section of Republicans and Democrats, men and women. Married and single, some with children, they ranged in age from 27 to 71.

The voters interviewed by The Times have clear reason to be weary. The west San Fernando Valley, once a center of heavy manufacturing and defense industry activity, has seen the closure of plant after plant, and a ripple effect on small business and individuals. Many people are still putting their lives back together after suffering damage in the earthquake that shook Northridge on Jan. 17.

They are people like Joseph Jurik, an aerospace engineer who is happy to have a job even though he has had to commute an hour each way to work since Hughes Aircraft closed its Canoga Park plant a few minutes from his home.

Or Mary Kranz, a librarian whose Bell Canyon house has plummeted in value just as she was preparing to cash in her equity to help put three children through college.

Or Rhoda Glassman of Northridge, whose daughter teaches elementary school and says that her pupils increasingly arrive at the classroom with so many problems that they are unprepared to learn even basic skills.

“California is not sunny-side up anymore,” said Corrine Squire-Strompf, a medical transcriptionist from Northridge.

These voters fear that their children and grandchildren will find it difficult, if not impossible, to duplicate the standard of living they have enjoyed. They say they don’t hear any answers from the candidates who are running, and they blame the media, in part, for focusing on the trivial while major issues and the candidates’ records go ignored.

Takuro Nakae, a retired mechanical engineer, believes the economy is suffocating beneath too many taxes and regulations.

“We’ve got to protect the turtles, the spotted owls and everything else,” said Nakae, 71, of Winnetka. “People and business are at the bottom of the list.”

And Steven Grimshaw, a registered nurse from West Hills, said he recently spoke to a laid-off Hughes engineer selling appliances at the Canoga Park Sears, just before the department store also closed down. While Grimshaw believes his own future is secure in the health care industry, he said the economic downturn has sapped the spirit of his neighbors.

“Before, we may have had financial hardships,” said Grimshaw, a 44-year-old Republican. “But there was always that hope. There were always jobs out there. Today, people don’t know where their next job is going to come from. And many people are afraid the job they have today isn’t going to be around tomorrow.”

Asked for a show of hands, 14 of the 15 voters hosted by The Times said they thought things were getting worse in California, not better. The lone dissenter: Chatsworth High School teacher Marcia Meyerstein, who said last year was so bad for her that this year, while not great, looks good in comparison.

That kind of anxiety breeds anger, and the conversation last week reflected anger toward politicians, as well as increasingly toward illegal immigrants. Several of the participants in the Times’ forum argued forcefully that they are being unfairly forced to shoulder a burden for providing services to people who should not be in this country.

“We have now a disproportionate amount of our tax money being spent subsidizing these people who do not speak English,” said Hershman, the Litton contracts manager.

But it’s not just the tax burden that irks people like Hershman. He and others complained that the new immigrants do not seem to want to assimilate into America, to become part of the “melting pot” they believe made the country great.

At work, Hershman said, they commemorate Mexican holidays. “Cinco de Mayo we celebrated,” he scoffs. “Do they celebrate the Fourth of July in Mexico?”

Polls show that such sentiments cross party lines, and the discussion bore that out. Hershman is a Democrat. So is Rhoda Glassman, who, pronouncing herself “politically incorrect,” complains about “hyphenated Americans” and the fact that her ballot comes with foreign language translations.

But such views were not unanimous. Felipe Hervais, a Democrat from Reseda, said the immigrants he knows came to this country to build a better life for their children. They may not speak English, the 27-year-old computer programmer said, but they want their children to learn the language of their adopted home.

And Grimshaw, the Republican from West Hills, said politicians are using the immigration issue to distract voters from more important matters.

“It’s a smoke screen,” he said.

While Grimshaw and the others mentioned crime as a worry, it did not dominate their conversation the way one might expect of an issue that polls say is the major concern of voters. Instead, they talked about schools and the economy, and about government itself--and those who lead it. They are sick of the finger-pointing, the backbiting and the selfishness, they said, and they are tired of negative campaigning. They want action.

“We’re being stopped and stymied by the politicians and those morons running around in Sacramento and Washington,” said Alvin Green, a Northridge lawyer. “They will say and do anything to keep their jobs.”

Jurik, the West Hills aerospace engineer, said he sees no “spirit of community” in government today.

“It’s just the opposite,” he said. “Our state and local communities are at odds with each other and do their best to make sure their little turf is taken care of first.”

Politicians of all stripes, the Times’ panel of voters said, only seem able to move when their own interests are on the line.

“They say it takes a long time for legislation to pass,” Hershman said. “Have you ever noticed that when they are interested in giving themselves a raise or their retirement, man, it happens in one goddamn minute.”

The discontent observed by The Times is similar to what political consultants for Gov. Wilson, Kathleen Brown and other candidates say they are hearing from voter focus groups.

“These people are alienated by politics and politicians,” said Steve Glazer, a senior adviser to Brown. “They are unhappy with the direction of the state.”

The most recent Los Angeles Times poll found that 8% of the electorate was still undecided, though a like number also said they were only “leaning” toward one candidate or the other. The governor’s political aides believe that many of the voters who remain undecided into October simply will not vote.

“They’re disaffected people, really,” George Gorton, Wilson’s campaign manager, said of those still undecided in this race. “They don’t think the political system is doing for them what they want to have done.”

But oddly, the voters meeting with The Times, while angry at government, still lean toward keeping in office those politicians who already are there.

Asked to choose between Democratic U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein and her Republican challenger, Rep. Mike Huffington of Santa Barbara, the voters sided with Feinstein by a whopping 13-1 margin. They cited Huffington’s wealth and his willingness to spend it, his lack of a record, and even rumors about his wife’s religious beliefs as reasons for opposing him.

The tally in the governor’s race, while also lopsided in favor of the incumbent, was less firm. Ten said they would tend to side with Wilson, while four chose Brown and one said she still could not decide. Almost all made it clear, though, that they were still open to choosing the other candidate.

Why would people who are so disenchanted with the system--and with incumbents in general--stick with the governor rather than throw him out?

Most said they give Wilson credit for trying. They realize he can’t turn the state around by himself. The Democrats in the Legislature, they say, have blocked him.

“They cannot do this overnight,” said Squire-Strompf, who said she watched the state of Kansas endure a similar transition when the civil aviation industry went bust. “We’re going to have to be patient.”

Others said they might be willing to oust Wilson but felt uncomfortable with Brown, about whom they know very little other than that her father and brother were governors before her.

“She’s like a blank canvas,” one said. “She’s trading on a name.”

Green, the lawyer, said he wants to know more before he decides which candidate to select.

“If she’s going to closely align to her brother Jerry Brown, she’ll be the worst thing that could ever happen to this state,” he said. “If she’s going to align her to her father and try to do what he did when he was governor, then she’ll be something very good for this state and all of us.”

But Green said he has no idea which scenario is more likely.

“It’s like taking a dart and throwing it against the wall,” he said.

Some Viewpoints From the Valley

To learn what voters are thinking, The Times, assisted by Davis Research of Calabasas, selected 15 San Fernando Valley residents who have voted in at least two of the past three elections and are undecided about the race for governor.

The group included a cross-section of voters, but was far too small to represent a scientific sampling of the electorate.

There were 10 Democrats, 4 Republicans and an Independent in the group. There were 8 men and 7 women. The group was mostly white, which while not reflective of California, is similar to the ethnic makeup of the electorate. Thirteen of the 15 were married. Twelve were working, while one was retired, one unemployed and one identified herself as a housewife.

The discussion took place over dinner provided by The Times at its Chatsworth office and was moderated by California Political Editor Mark Saylor.

The Times intends to talk to the same voters two more times during the final month before the Nov. 8 election to find out whether the candidates are reaching these voters and what issues are of greatest concern.