READERS RESPOND -- How far should zero tolerance go?

Thank you, Gay Geiser-Sandoval. Your education columns make a great

deal of sense to us. We are former teachers and grandparents of two

teenagers and two young adults. Your column (“Policy would not solve

school bully problem,” March 6) about the recent school shooting tragedy

hit the nail on the head regarding bullying by children. All the other

articles that day never mentioned that as a possible cause.

Consider the comments quoted from children that day:

* “One of the boys beats Williams.”

* “We were just making fun of him. We were just mocking him.”

* “Andrew Williams was considered a scrawny punk, a pint-sized

15-year-old ridiculed for his passivity, small size and pale skin.”

* “Kids stole shoes off his feet or stuff from his backpack and he

never fought back. Twice his skateboard was snatched away.”

* “You could take money out of his wallet, you could take the shirt

off his back and throw it in the gutter, and he would just walk away.”

* “He pounded him badly and punched him in the face four times.”

* And then there was the comment by a 12-year-old when Williams

threatened that he was going to shoot kids at school: “You don’t have the

guts to do it.”

We agree with you, Geiser-Sandoval. Bullying is a big part of the

problem, and so are those who stand by and watch it.

VIRGINIA AND ALLEN DAVIS

Newport Beach

Hurrah for parents who insisted on zero tolerance for bullying and

harassment at Corona del Mar High School. Their stance is one of

tenacity, dignity and integrity.

I’m sure the parents of students who were either killed or were the

killers in other districts wished they had insisted on such policies.

Those parents and administrators in Colorado, in San Diego, will likely

deal with the guilt from their passive responses to the clues and

indications of impending doom for the rest of their lives.Good for the

parents who bang the gong for the safety of their children and insist

that there be absolutely no tolerance for anyone who even threatens

physical violence. It is rare to see such courage and action in this age

of apathy and denial.

For a principal at a local high school to finally acknowledge

“probably” that harassment has a new significance is ludicrous. Of course

it has new meaning after watching the shock and horror at other affluent,

suburban districts in the recent past.

Why did parents have to demand such a policy? Why wasn’t it put into

place by an administration aware of the availability of guns in

combination with horror stories of student violence on the Corona del Mar

campus? I question the voracity and strength of character of this man.

Bravo to the parents who fought for a zero-tolerance policy, who

listen to their children, who take action on their child’s behalf, to get

through to obviously ostrich-like administrators. They are the true

heroes.

Today, Corona del Mar is not the agonized school dealing with

unchangeable, unspeakable tragedy because of the courage of these

parents. Thank you for the example you have set for the many other local

school districts in Orange County. I hope when my 2-year-old daughter

goes to school, I will have the same determination and tenacious

follow-through on her behalf as these parents in Corona del Mar did when

they took up activism for the zero-tolerance policy.

CAROLINE McNABBCosta Mesa

How far should the district’s zero-tolerance policy go?

The policy needs to go far enough to ensure all students have a safe,

nonthreatening environment.

Though she is now in college, we had a horrid experience when our

daughter was in sixth grade. The taunting from one boy spread to several

kids she thought had been friends, then to most of her class. Kids were

pressured to harass, taunt and tease her. The result was a girl who

wanted to change schools. The harasser promised to engage the help of his

friends at the other schools to ensure her life remained miserable.

After several conversations at the school, where we were told there

was not much that could be done, I started calling parents. While some

were receptive and took corrective action, I discovered the true source

of the problem when the parent of the instigator/worst offender

(obviously oblivious to her kid’s obnoxiousness) called to tell me that

she and her husband had discussed the problem and thought perhaps my

daughter needed counseling. Was she joking?

They did nothing to stop their son because, after all, they can only

control what he does in their presence. And he is, after all, just a kid

and boys will be boys.

It is a testimony to the true character of our daughter that she

survived the experience to become a truly beautiful (inside and out),

confident and compassionate young woman.

How many kids would have taken action into their own hands? Is this

not the type of stress that has led to violence in schools?

This problem extends beyond the school’s reach and is often a

parenting issue. The parents need to be held accountable (or at the very

least be inconvenienced). Perhaps a three-strikes policy, with the first

course of action being a conference with the parent and student, would

work?

Provide parents a chance to hear the problem and take their own

corrective action before escalating punishment. The school should then

have the option of determining the most appropriate punishment options.

The third and final action should be suspension or expulsion.

We live in a world where there must be laws to provide consequences

for harassment in the workplace. When adults must obey laws to prevent

them from abusing and harassing each other, it makes sense that the

offspring of the people who inspired the laws would also need special

“incentives” to behave themselves.

Is this still a civilized society?

MEG TWEEDY

Costa Mesa

I graduated from Newport Harbor High School 20 years ago and have

noticed huge changes everywhere.

When I was in school, you didn’t do anything because you knew that

when a teacher called your parents, the punishment would be much worse

than any five-day suspension from school.

We didn’t have the violent video games of today, but we had our share

of movies that would rival anything currently out there. Students live

for today and don’t worry about tomorrow.

Living in Seattle for the last 10 years, I’ve seen that kids only need

an excuse like a public gathering to express their bad behavior. In this

case in Corona del Mar, was it the right thing to suspend the child for

five days? No. Should the child have to go to counseling? Yes, but the

parents of the child would have to attend as well.

PETE CALLAWAY

Seattle, Wash.

Regarding Gay Geiser-Sandoval’s column (“Campus officers not the

answer,” March 13) and Ila Johnson’s community commentary

(“Zero-tolerance policy doesn’t attack cause,” March 13): I’m in favor of

combining Gay’s idea of training teachers and students with Ila’s concern

for the new children’s zero-tolerance recommendation by the school board.

A psychologist needs to educate the teachers, parents and children

what is acceptable venting of anger and when someone has gone too far,

such as acting in a more dangerous manner. This could include both people

who threaten suicide and violence. Both usually give warnings to others.

Those others simply need to understand the difference between a threat

and venting.

JANE ALTMAN-DWAN

Newport Beach

How far should the schools go? Well, I think if the students are

pulling pranks and are not obeying the rules like they have been in the

past, I believe a firm zero tolerance is needed to help correct

situations like that.

LARRY SEAL

Laguna Niguel

I thank you so much, Gary Norton, principal of Corona del Mar High

School. Please be tough; somebody has to. There is no excuse for children

drawing pictures that scare other kids nor is there an excuse for

harassing kids. Somebody needs to be strong. I’m glad that somebody’s

taken the stand. Tough love.

PENNY FLEMING

Newport Beach

What a surprise, another schoolyard shooting.

Between the killing-suggestive lyrics of today’s favorite rap stars,

the murder-oriented video games, the teaching philosophy that we are

nothing but evolved animals anyway, and society saying it’s OK to kill an

unborn child if you don’t want it: Should we expect anything less than

more violence from a confused child?

School leaders say what we need are more gun-control laws and metal

detectors in the schools with more psychologists to counsel on anger

management.

The same people say we don’t need groups that want to teach values and

morals and publicly post outdated documents that have sayings like, “Thou

shall not kill.”

Funny, I sound a little confused myself.

GARY BAUME

Costa Mesa